Curse

neoteo · Dec 21, 2005, 09:11 AM // 09:11

man , you are missing so much fun .. did you know you can call targets and others can folow ? lians arch is so , but so far from the pve end content ... why dont you play with humans ?
join guilds ? i also play solo and with henchys sometimes , but pugs can be fun , a lot of help , and most of all , learn and teach !
if people start calling you a noob , first try to find out why they are calling you that , if you think there is no decent reason , or no one is explaing you why .. then leave that group and try another one , im sure you will find people who will talk to you and tell you what you dont know.
im playing for 7 months also , and my experince was the oposite , i only learnd that henchs existed in the desert. becose of that , i skiped some missions without having a clue they existed , i got in a group that run from lians arch to sancum cay , i had no idea there were more missions in that area , i had problems in desert missions , cose no one wanted to take a level 17 or 18 .. everyone was level 20 ... then i had to go back and search for what i have missed and why ... ( lol ) i agree with pugs we go a litle to fast , i have skiped a lot of quests , not explored a lot of areas , i was enjoying so much doing missions , just wanted more and more , till i reach
hells percepice and completed ... only after i come back to do all the quests i was missing , i found so much i have missed . even today i sometimes found a new place , i just find out yesterday that i have missed 2 towns in presearing.

try playing with humans , you can always leave if you are geting abused or not having fun.

make questions in local , and even make friends

edit to say

afters hells percepice there are still

Underworls and Fissure quests ( go in lians arch when your territory have favor after ascending )

Sorrow Furnace Quests ( warcamp thats near camp rankor and granite citadel , after hells )

Droknars 20k Exp Quests ( after dragons lar mission you go to this town , but can only take this quests after you do hells percipice )

LFG - looking for group
GLF - group looking for

you can add anything after those letters , quest xyz , mission and/or bonus ,farming , or just simple exploring

this lines can define your knolage in game , for exemple when we have favor and i want to join a group in temple of the ages normaly i type :

echo nuker LFG Uw/Fow/Dnk

this means im a elementarist/mesmer cose i have echo or arcane echo that lets me repeat a skill and that im able to do underworld and fissure quests that are only for ascended people and defend north kryta quest , that are for people who have done hells percipice , with a simple line people will know my stage in the game and pick me or not for that reason.

Myk · Dec 21, 2005, 09:28 AM // 09:28

It has only been in the past week or so that I've started joining PuGs, since then I always did quests/missions with henchies. Once I joined my first PuG I noticed the other players all had fancy looking armour and weapons, while I was still using the ascalon crafted armour for my Ele.
Now that I'm up to the Wilds mission, I am finding it extremely tough going. Infact I realised that having rushed through far too much of the game without doing the side quests, I lacked both game knowledge and additional skills that would really help me in the missions.
Last time I attempted the Wilds mission, I asked one of the players what armour/weapon combo and where they got it from. When they asked what I was using and why I was still in "old" armour I explained that I was trying to complete the game in order. The rest of the group started to poke fun at me (good natured fun that is, nothing insulting or rude except the thing about the goldfish) and suggested when we all died, that I hire a runner to get to DK (?) and get better equipment there. Worth thinking about?

Anyway, although I trawl this site (and others) I often find that all this information about the game makes my head spin. I'm no expert, but I honestly thought that I was beyond the title of "Newbie"....

Might shake it off one day soon...

Turbo Wombat · Dec 21, 2005, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Personally, I'll use henchies or solo whenever I can because I can't stand many of the people I come across in PUG's. I must say though that I've gotten very efficient at commanding the bots and, as a result, can go from pre-searing through Hell's Precipice and complete all the quests along the way in less then a week of afternoon play if I get luckey with the PUG's in the areas they're necessary. Though PvE can be great with the right people, I've found that it seems more efficient and less stressful to use henchies when you can.

coolsti · Dec 21, 2005, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myk

It has only been in the past week or so that I've started joining PuGs, since then I always did quests/missions with henchies. Once I joined my first PuG I noticed the other players all had fancy looking armour and weapons, while I was still using the ascalon crafted armour for my Ele.
Now that I'm up to the Wilds mission, I am finding it extremely tough going. Infact I realised that having rushed through far too much of the game without doing the side quests, I lacked both game knowledge and additional skills that would really help me in the missions.
Last time I attempted the Wilds mission, I asked one of the players what armour/weapon combo and where they got it from. When they asked what I was using and why I was still in "old" armour I explained that I was trying to complete the game in order. The rest of the group started to poke fun at me (good natured fun that is, nothing insulting or rude except the thing about the goldfish) and suggested when we all died, that I hire a runner to get to DK (?) and get better equipment there. Worth thinking about?

Anyway, although I trawl this site (and others) I often find that all this information about the game makes my head spin. I'm no expert, but I honestly thought that I was beyond the title of "Newbie"....

Might shake it off one day soon...

*tries to contain anger while typing this reply* Don't listen to that idiot that suggested you hire a runner to get Droks armour! That is not playing the game (as it was designed), that is cheating the PVE portion.

When you say you are wearing Ascalon armour, do you mean you are still wearing the armour you can buy in the Ascalon city? You certainly can do better than that by upgrading your armour at some cities along the way. I usually wait until Ventaris (after the Wilds mission) before I upgrade. You get a better armour class. But you certainly don't need to be run to Droknars for armour to play this game. That would make things less challenging and much less fun.

The Wilds mission should not necessarilly be tough going if you are playing with henchies only. You just need to know how to control the henchies and their movements. It is definitely necessary in the Wilds mission to move forwards carefully and to lure groups back to where you can fight them without getting other wandering patrols involved. Especially if you are doing the bonus. Whether it is easier or not to do this mission with henchies depends on how you control the henchies and what kind of PUG you join. Human players who are impatient, who do not play like a team and who do not target and follow targets will generally be more troublesome than playing with henchies.

If you are lacking skills because you did not take quests which reward you with them, well, then that is something to think about. But you should not be lacking game knowledge because you play with henchies instead of people. You can learn how the game is beat perhaps more easilly with henchies, because you can take things at your own pace. Perhaps human players can teach you a few things or two which are not obvious (actually, a lot about this game is not obvious) but human players can also teach you incorrectly. Like that BS about having to be run to Droknars.

But try to play with PUG groups, it is more rewarding when you find good players.

Caged Fury · Dec 21, 2005, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Most of the time I team up with one particular person. We started on GW at the same time and we played well together since pre-searing and continued with the partnership. If need to, we tend to pad out the team with henchies.

Only recently, I've started playing more in random PUGs. To help me get use to this, I tend to return to previous missions that I've done and joined random parties to help out. It does make a change leaving henchies behind and playing with others. You get to see how other people play, and how some professions are played, and sometimes (if you're lucky) you get more interaction than you do with the henchies.

neoteo · Dec 21, 2005, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Wombat

Personally, I'll use henchies or solo whenever I can because I can't stand many of the people I come across in PUG's. I must say though that I've gotten very efficient at commanding the bots and, as a result, can go from pre-searing through Hell's Precipice and complete all the quests along the way in less then a week of afternoon play if I get luckey with the PUG's in the areas they're necessary. Though PvE can be great with the right people, I've found that it seems more efficient and less stressful to use henchies when you can.

ahhh , so this is how its done ... no wonder there is so much people saying this game sucs , you can finish it in one weekend , i always found this impossible , but now i believe , being a master with henchs , its really possible..

have you done any of those quests after hells percepice with henchs ? i think there are some that cant even be done with henchs , like : Final Assault .

i seriusly think that the game would be much more interesting without henchs , but i understand Anet cant do that .. that would block the game in empty towns ... anyway its good already that some quests cant be done with henchs , im happy with it already.

what makes me laugh is people that only play with henchs , think they have reach the end game and/or are very skilled.

but i also understand that this game as old school rpg gamers , that are used to become gods without any help from others , so its like a trap.

impov

playing solo in this game only leads to boredom , lack of skill and ilusion of completeness

Siren Danica · Dec 21, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

You have the right, of course, to play the game any way you want.

But, if after 7 months you have only reached level 15, you are definitely way behind where you would have been if you had played the game with pickup groups and done the Storyline missions in order.

I do most quests with henchmen, but have done all the missions with pickup groups. The best thing about pickup groups is the unpredictability. Like others have said, you will experience good groups and bad, and plenty of combinations of the two. You will meet funny people, unfunny people, noobs, jerks, quitters, whiners, good players, bad players, helpful folks, level 20 players (when everyone else is level 12), level 4 players (when everyone else is level 20), afk players, extortionists, scam artists, friendly players, smart players, stupid players, players complaining about server lag, team players, selfish players, appreciative players, braggers, modest players, leaders, followers, people who listen, people who don't listen, people wielding weapons you never heard of, people who press CTRL key nonstop so you see every spell they cast, good-natured people, ill-tempered people, people wearing really cool armor, people wearing no armor, showoffs, creeps, and of course, regular plain old folks.

Guild Wars is the first online mulitplayer game I've ever played, after playing single-person games for years. And GW has grabbed me like no other game, because of the variety of people you run into. There are plenty of times you will prefer to do battle with henchmen, but, IMO, you're missing a HUGE part of the game if you never form or join pickup groups.

Martin Firestorm · Dec 21, 2005, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Hi KC GSR--only you know how you like best to play, but I cannot recommed higly enough that you give PUGs a real chance. The interaction with real people changes the whole game experience, almost always for the better if you ask me. The bad apples I've ended up with in PUGs have been a huge minority, and I've met so many fun players and also have learned a lot. Also, you'll reach some missions later where I think you almost have to play with at least some live pleyrs. Thunderhead keep come to mind. But the main thing is you're depriving yourself of one of the best parts of GW.

Burakus Lightwing · Dec 21, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

I have used both henchies and pick-up groups. Sometimes I go with guildies but that's very rare...unfortunately. Anyway, 1st off let me say, play anyway you like. For the most part I prefer doing quests with henchies unless I have a chance to play with someone I know...
I like to take my time and not "blow" through the game. I've been playing for about 2 months now. I have a lvl 20 W/mo a lvl 18 E/N and I made a couple more just to unlock some skills for PvP. Both my high levels are only around the Wilds.. no where near then end but I have gotten a run to Droks and explored some of that area as well and I did run my W/mo to the Henge. There is sooo much more beyond LA. Take your time though. I consider myself a casual gamer and I have no problem taking my time and exploring the map with henchies. I feel I can go at my own pace, stop at collectors, not just run into every mob. I will say that for Missions I do get into groups. I think missions are completely different from quests. Sometimes I do get in annoying groups, but that can happen anytime and I've also gotten into groups with some gret people that were very knowledgeable. Like some previous posters have mentioned, playing with 'people' will give you a different insight into how various builds are or can be used. Even your own build may change. Personally I have to change my skill set from a henchie group to a live group because the play style is very different.
In the end you paid for the game, get out of it what YOU want.
There are times after a long day at work I just want to relax and pop on the game for a bit and not deal with people so solo/henchie works out great. Other times it's nice to get in a group and help someone out or have them help you out. Don't believe anyone that tells you, you're not skilled. It's a different play style and I think anyone who blows through this game in a weekend is a seriuos gamer...that's not me.
So sit back and enjoy this game anyway you like.

Myk · Dec 21, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

*tries to contain anger while typing this reply* Don't listen to that idiot that suggested you hire a runner to get Droks armour! That is not playing the game (as it was designed), that is cheating the PVE portion.

Which is why I ultimately said no, however tempting it might seem. I actually want to complete the game the way it was meant to. I was one of those sad cases that would often get stuck on the first level of a game only to spend the next month trying to figure it out. I rarely used to ask for help, and even now I tend towards thinking that having a "god" cheat on during a game spoils the fun of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

The Wilds mission should not necessarilly be tough going if you are playing with henchies only. You just need to know how to control the henchies and their movements. It is definitely necessary in the Wilds mission to move forwards carefully and to lure groups back to where you can fight them without getting other wandering patrols involved. Especially if you are doing the bonus. Whether it is easier or not to do this mission with henchies depends on how you control the henchies and what kind of PUG you join. Human players who are impatient, who do not play like a team and who do not target and follow targets will generally be more troublesome than playing with henchies.

This is something I'm beginning to understand better. My first approach to this game was one of hack/cast/slash/kick your way though it with little or no thought to tactics involved (worked quite well for me in D2). Now that I am a ways into the game, I'm having to adapt... this is where my fun starts, having to actually pay attention to what I am (and others around me) doing and thinking more than ten seconds ahead. I've been fortunate in the PuGs I've had, apart from my first one, and generally they've been patient with me. I have often felt that I didn't pull my weight, but this is just me being paranoid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

If you are lacking skills because you did not take quests which reward you with them, well, then that is something to think about. But you should not be lacking game knowledge because you play with henchies instead of people. You can learn how the game is beat perhaps more easilly with henchies, because you can take things at your own pace. Perhaps human players can teach you a few things or two which are not obvious (actually, a lot about this game is not obvious) but human players can also teach you incorrectly. Like that BS about having to be run to Droknars.

And now I'm looking back at all the places I've rushed through. My inital goal was to level up as fast as I could (harking back to many a different RPG style game, the higher the level the better you are), and of course GW isn't the sort of game that levelling is as essential. Although as of writing, my ele is level 17, I know that I have missed quests that would help improve my character beyond what she has now (mainly skills...). Besides, when I look at my map there is so much unexplored... and I'm itching to find out what is behind that there yonder mountain...

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

But try to play with PUG groups, it is more rewarding when you find good players.

It is more rewarding knowing that you have helped a team acomplish the mission, rather than just dragged a few npcs through the area kicking and sceraming. I'll probably try the "Wilds" mission with a PuG later tonight, after I have done a quest or two with henchies.... I could do with the practice.

Yichi · Dec 21, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41

If you ever want to test out your skills as a monk, then i would suggest going the PUG route.... youll find out just how good u are at monking real fast....

coolsti · Dec 22, 2005, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myk

This is something I'm beginning to understand better. My first approach to this game was one of hack/cast/slash/kick your way though it with little or no thought to tactics involved (worked quite well for me in D2). Now that I am a ways into the game, I'm having to adapt... this is where my fun starts, having to actually pay attention to what I am (and others around me) doing and thinking more than ten seconds ahead. I've been fortunate in the PuGs I've had, apart from my first one, and generally they've been patient with me. I have often felt that I didn't pull my weight, but this is just me being paranoid.

Congrats! You sound like you are on the right path to really enjoying this game. Not like many of the hack/slash artists that quickly find the missions boring and something just to get over and done with. And not like many of the players who insist on going out with the same kind of team (for example W tanks + Mo heals + E nukenukenukes) because anything else in their minds just wouldn't work and everyone will be killed in 2 seconds.

I've done every quest and every mission so far in the correct order and am on my 5th character. I find it still exciting because each character has its own unique skills and thus the way to play the characters are so completely different. One of the greatest things about this game that keeps me going is that - even or maybe especially when using henchies - tactics is important. Hack/slashing does not work so well. I can clear out SF with a full or almost full team of henchies with no problems if I am careful. If I am tired and not so careful, well, the group dies. But this is why the game continues to be fun for me.

And when playing with humans, that is where the real diversity and challenge comes in. You can't avoid getting into bad groups at times, I and a friend even left one last night (I normally hate leaving but it was warranted here). But getting into good groups is so rewarding. Try to put people on your friends list and vice verse when you find good people, and then try to keep in touch if possible. You will soon learn what types of players to avoid when teaming up with folk. For me, for example, people who write in capital letters or who have distasteful character names don't get into my parties. People who write "gogogogo" after joining my party have a high chance of getting kicked. The same with anyone who shows that they are impatient. Heh heh had a guy recently who asked if we could hurry up and get going because he had to eat dinner soon, and this was for an SF farming party! I admired him for his openness but I had to kick him because I really am tired of people who start things that they don't have the time to finish. I normally also don't team up with people who insist henchies suck and don't want them in the team. This is a good indication that these people don't know how to play patiently and tactically.

Anyway, good luck and have fun!

Van Falcon · Dec 22, 2005, 02:51 PM // 14:51

In general I will never play with henchies unless I'm absolutely desperate to either complete a quest or get somewhere and am sick of waiting for real players to do it.

Firstly I can't understand why so many people claim that henchies are better than (90% of) real players. I think they are just throwing a number out there and perhaps its reflective of both the inflated opinion they have of themselves and their disdain for other players. Either that or I really really pity their luck with PUGs because it is certainly not reflective of my experiences.

As someone who does a lot of PUGs (being in a fairly inactive guild) here are some of the types of PUGs I often find myself in:

- A group of generally skilled players, the mission is a breeze, and everyone has fun.
- A group of somewhat mediocre players, but due to my contribution and what I have learned from my experience in the game, we are able to scrape through. I might even get some thanks or plaudits!
- A group of "n00bs" or otherwise inexperienced, poor players. I'll try and teach them a few things, maybe even make a new friend? We'll probably fail the mission, but in the scheme of things, who really cares? I might even get some good drops anyway

.
- A group of arrogant players who think they're top shit, but really they suck. They're too stupid to take advice, and generally play like idiots. I just sit back and laugh.
- A group similar to the above, but maybe they're just a bit more arrogant or a bit more nasty. I'll essentially mock them, laugh at them, maybe even take them down a peg or 2. If there's any cool people in the group I'll try and form another group with them after so they know it is possible to have a good PUG.

Anyway, obviously there are some slight variations to the above, but that's a pretty good cross section of the PUGs you are likely to get. The important point is that I have fun in ALL of those situations. And in the end, that's what's important right?

As for those #*$A%*&%& henchies... well there's no point making witty insults at them.. they'll just ignore you. And they do the same damn screwups time after time, it might have been funny the first time, but the 10th time?

Toral Xi · Jan 05, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

I have played the game probably 50% PUG, and 50% hench. I do enjoy playing more with a good PUG but so many times in missions you get someone that drops, aggros, goes afk, etc. That is why lately I have been primarily using henchies because you just don't get the headaches or wasted time. I haven't given up on PUG entierely mind you, its just that I'm in Sorrows and it seems like most everyone there is 5 man farming, not questing, and the henchies are always ready to go (no waiting 20- 30min to form a group). I was lucky enough to get in a really good group for oro and I am hoping the same for the final assault.

LouAl · Jan 05, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

First of all, there is no "right" way to play the game. Do it how you want. If you want to take 7 months to get to lvl 15, that's great if you had fun. If you don't want to get into a pug, that's great if you continue to have fun.

Here is my game experience. Take from it whatever you want.

I started playing a few months ago. I played solo or with close friends until about Nolani Academy. After that I got into pugs about 10% of time I went out. By the time I got to Beacon's I was having a graet time with the game, but I was frustrated with my characters ability to stay alive. I think that the Me/E (especially pre fix on ether feast, but I think it still applies) has the worst ability to self heal. At that point in the game if I typed /deaths it was at about 600

I decided to get a runner to Drok's to get some better armor.

Now my main character is at Ring of Fire and if I type /deaths it is at about 650-700. I still have to work hard at staying alive, but I also try to do stupid things by myself (ie pay 1k to "check out" what UW is like, then pay it again cuz I died before I got halfway up the first set of stairs

).

I now get in pug's for about 66% of the missions and a few of the quests. I still see nothing wrong with using henchies or going solo. I often only have about 20 minutes to play and then about another 20 minutes 2 hours later. In those cases I grab some henchies and go or plan on soloing it (they still have never flamed me for being AFK for about 5 hours

).

I needed better equipment to figure out how to play my character more effectively. It was very difficult to learn the game when I died all the time. Now I try crazy stuff just to see what I can/can't do.

It is never "necessary" to get a pug, not even for Thunderhead Keep, but living people CAN make some missions much, much easier (Riverside Province Mission and Bonus for example).

My advice is to not even read this post of mine because it rambles and doesn't really say much and to play however you want. If you feel like you want more from the game, find a way to get more from it. If not, then keep on doing what you are doing because it has obviously been fun for the last 7 months.

Summary (READ THIS PART ONLY):

1. Play how you want
2. There is no 'right' way to do anything
3. Henchies rock
4. Pickup groups are fun (and can rock)
5. Don't read this post...it is too long

Cjlr · Jan 05, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

The way I see it:
The worst PUG is far worse than henchies will ever be. And I mean it, they can be just flat out bad. On the plus side, you'll never laugh as hard at your compatriots actions as you will in a bad PUG. That's a plus, I suppose.
The best PUG is so far skilled beyond what you and your stalwart henchies can manage that there's just no comparison. These caliber groups are, however, quite rare. But there's nothing like the feeling of getting through that tough mission with everyone at a 10% morale boost.

Morangen · Jan 06, 2006, 04:18 AM // 04:18

When the game first came out I really only played with henchmen (a habit I got from the few BWE I played). As time went on however I wanted to experience the infamous PUG and so I started joining groups for quests / missions other than the res signet one and found I really enjoyed it when I was with a good group. Since then I have tried to have a balance between both of them. A good example of when I use henchmen is when I get into those crazed insane moments when you get the thought that it would be fun to go out and explore the map to see what new things I can find. If I want to have a good time doing some quests with other people then I try to find a PUG. It works for me

Malchior Devenholm · Jan 06, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Thats how i started out 2 dude...I was an Elementalist/Mesmer so i couldn't just go solo and let myself get mauled to death, i had to get henchies. Wasn't until i got ascended with him that my friend told me henchies reduce the possibility of good drops and steal a portion of the gold. OMG I WAS SO MAD!-I had used full hench teams everywhere i went (cept missions). I always liked to do things my pace fearing others would slow me down or go too fast *which sucked cuz of my lag*

Now, knowing henchies take some of my spoils, ill use them when i need to but i'll b sure not to grab too many...If you planning on doing a quest just spend about 5 min in a city asking for a group to go with you on the quest-if you dont find anybody just do it yourself, better then waiting God knows how long...

Also, if you have a warrior/monk-try doing everything solo-a strong tank can be made as early as ascalon with just a good Mending (+3 health regen monk skill)...l8r in the game more skills become available and other classes can solo as well-like the invincimonk, minion master, endless earth ele, etc...

My opinion, go it solo WHENEVER you can, dont wait forever looking for a group-if noone wants to go with you then take some henchies, but if you want some decent drops for some better cash decrease the number of henchies you take...

So yeah dude, ur not alone